Claudia López, promoter of the Anti-Corruption Consultation, and Rafael Nieto, the opponent, give their opinion.
Lopez, the main promoter, recognizes that it is very difficult to reach the threshold. While Rafael Nieto, member of the Democratic Center, believes that the initiative will be a failure.
"We commit the congress to self-reform": Claudia López
How do you vote with 12 million Colombians who are exhausted after three elections this year?
The tiring thing is that they rob us while they rob us and that every Colombian, whether it's a baby or a grandfather, robs him $ 1,000,000 a year from the corrupt. That sum gives $ 50 billion and is the full budget for health and education in one year. I think Colombians are burning, indignant about corruption, but we must understand that the only thing that depends on us, the citizens, because we can not catch or endorse the corrupt, is to vote to choose good people and vote for the seven mandates of corruption to compel Congress to approve these rules, useful to punish the corrupt and recover the money they have stolen.
What answers to those who say that $ 300,000 million would have served to do more useful work for Colombians?
Democracy costs, a consultation at national level so that Colombians can enforce congress costs, the same as choosing the president of the republic or the congress. Because of the campaigns of the political parties nobody says anything, but four million Colombians have worked for free for a year and a half so that this consultation is possible, and then the cry in heaven.
I say it in practical terms, is 6 cents to invest, less weight per Colombian, to recover the million pesos that rob us a year, best business impossible, but continue to complain and do nothing, the only thing that guarantees is that we continue to steal and abuse.
Do you feel that the government has brought you into competition with the anti-corruption laws you have filed in Congress?
Not at all, what happens is that confusion has arisen because it is the first time that a consultation is done, people believe that because projects are presented in Congress, they have already been approved. No, those projects presented by Duque were presented by Santos, Uribe, Gaviria and congressmen and they have always been sunk. On the contrary, I would have liked President Duque to arrange the seven projects of the consultation once, because we gain time. The chairman lives and with today's vote we force the Congress to approve them. This is a cause of the country, the Uribistas are also robbed, the Dukes will also increase taxes to bridge the gap in corruption, those who want to help Duke so that Congress can not blackmail him or extort money for him. approving these projects, we have to vote en masse.
See how you mark the anti-corruption newspaper card so that your vote is valid
Do you know that you need the voices of former President Uribe and his followers?
There are 36 million Colombians who are eligible to vote. I am very sorry for the change of position of former president Uribe and I see that there is a split in the Democratic Center, but I thank President Duque who has kept his word to the Consulta and various senators of the CD, Paloma Valencia, support, many people he understands that this is the cause of a country, it is not green or red or Claudia or Uribe. I am disappointed, but I am not surprised that the news would be that politicians stick to what they say in the campaign. That is why we force Congress to self-reform. The congressmen do not lower the salary, do not take away the privilege of home through the prison, make the jam & # 39; or the contratitis not to fingert with their friends, nor is the period limited, they are not accountable, nor do they show their patrimony, nor give us the ability to investigate their frontman to extinguish the domain and the money that they have stolen back. That is what the consultation is for, and also to combat small and medium-sized corruption of the municipalities and governments.
Is there a & # 39; plan B & # 39; in case the threshold is not reached?
The & # 39; plan B & # 39; is the consultation because the & # 39; plan A & # 39; was that it approved the congress and was not reached in 25 years. The & # 39; plan C & # 39; is to wait until one day Congress has enough majorities of decent people who do not opt for corruption and corrupt contractors and approve this rule. At the current extension of the conference, my calculation is that we are going to last 50 years.
What responds to those who say that the consultation is meant to bring you political returns?
It seems very mean to me. It is clear that I do not dedicate myself to biochemistry. I was told that this was for my presidential campaign, it is over; Then it was for my campaign for the vice presidency, it is over and now they say it's because it's going to serve me. Is it Claudia López who is the only robbery in Colombia? No, but that political petty hurt me because we have done everything to make this a cause of the country.
A lot of people tell me how dirty it is, most likely there will not be 12 million votes and you will have a defeat & # 39 ;. I do not care, I do not think about myself, it is very difficult to get 12.142.000 votes, but we are looking for a way to stop this corruption or they will continue to mislead us.
By the way, how many people have this campaign been over?
There are 80,000 volunteers who have worked for a year and a half to make this possible. Now comes the most important point: the ball stays on the field of the Colombians. We have already taken the steps required by law to vote, to force Congress to take these rules and protect our wallets. Today I hope that millions of Colombians, not 12, 15 or 20 million Colombians stop complaining about corruption and let's vote seven times Yes.
"This consultation is very expensive and unnecessary"
How does the environment feel for voting on the Consulta?
Cold. I do not see a great civic enthusiasm, I think there is a certain apathy. There is a confusion of factors because there are several elections that have passed this year and that are deteriorating. Moreover, the controversy about the relevance or not of the consultation itself, the fact that there is no polarization around it, these are all elements that contribute to apathy.
There is no feeling here, the position of those who disagree with the Anti-Corruption Consultation is not because they are against the content itself, but because it seems unnecessary, harmless and bold, indifferent.
Does this mean that the consultation does not move the emotions of the people?
After so many elections in this year, people are exhausted. Those who are convinced of the abstinence find that the consultation is unnecessary, that they are extremely expensive for the goals they want to achieve or they do not see that the goals that are set can be achieved.
Do you think the threshold of twelve million will be reached?
No. I am absolutely certain that the consultation does not reach the threshold. This consultation is unnecessary and extremely expensive for the goals you want to achieve. Moreover, there is the perception of a political election advantage of the elections.
There is talk of unconstitutional points in the Anti-Corruption Consultation and others that are already laws of the Republic …
This question was wrong from the start. You can not change the constitutional rules. When the Democratic Center proposed a law for the reduction of the salaries of the congressmen, the Constitutional Court replied that this was not possible because it was a constitutional norm. The consultation requires things that can not be changed and that would lead to a change in the political constitution of Colombia, which is a terrible mistake.
One of the problems it has is that they sell the public the idea that the anti-corruption meeting will solve everything, but it turns out that it is useless; On the contrary, we spend a lot of money on something that is useless, ineffective, and that does not change reality, because most of the mechanism is already in the law and what has to be done is to comply with it.
It is precisely many people who lower the & # 39; baton & # 39; to the proposal led by members of the Green Party and say that it costs a lot …
This is an unnecessary expense because five points of the content of the consultation are already included in the legislation and the other two are unconstitutional. It is absurd that the country is taking 310,000 million pesos for something tougher and Claudia López, along with the people of her party, does not justify it.
It is not about making an end to corruption, because we all worry about it, but the anti-corruption consultation is not about solving that problem.
This is harmless and will not bring about the change that everyone expects, it will not contribute to improving the situation, but to make it worse, because to recover that money it costs us fifteen years or more, that does not make any sense and financial perspective it is a madness.
Some members of the Democratic Center who initially supported the Consultation have changed their minds. How to explain it?
This is simple, what happens is that the people of the Democratic Center who supported the Consulta voted on today simply decided that it is safe in the sense that it has no effect.
Also read: "The message against corruption is the value of the Consulta": Paloma Valencia
Keep in mind that two of the questions are unconstitutional, the first and the seventh, and the promoters overlook that. The other five subjects are already regulated in the law. So it is clear that today's present will have no real effect, but a political goal of elections.
The message from the Anticorruption Query is sent with a number. Will that motivate people to go out and vote?
That consultation will be a disaster. I do not see people voting and I do not think the message from Bogotá with a meaningless song is enough to encourage them to go to the polls. For more propaganda there is no way to vote on twelve million people.
Could it be that the purpose of this citizen participation mechanism has reached the regions?
There are Colombians who have to take chalupa for a few hours to vote and who clearly do not find it worthwhile, only that mechanism is centralized in the big cities. I do not see it as easy for someone to leave the most remote regions to practice in the ballot box.
What if, contrary to the predictions, the Consulta comes to pass?
If the consultation exceeds the threshold, the ambitions of Claudia López will undoubtedly be strengthened politically and therefore the Green Party will be strengthened. But it will not reach the threshold and – in other words – it will be far from what was agreed.
The promoters of this sold a wrong idea with high costs to conclude that it is a pure story, and to finish it, they have politicized it, even knowing that the result will be very bad.
What comes next
If the threshold for approval and participation is reached today, the Anti-Corruption Consultation Council will hand over the texts of the seven legislative proposals to President Iván Duque and ask them to submit them in the Congress of the Republic.
The Senate and the House of Representatives will have a year to debate about them, add standards to the sentence, but it will not be able to stop fulfilling the mandate or to contradict it.
If after a year the Congress has not followed the procedure or has not approved the new laws, the President of the Republic will have sufficient powers to issue it by decree.